CCKW Steering knuckle lube

[pfarber]

From TM9-801 P87

(12) UNIVERSAL JOINTS AND STEERING KNUCKLE BEARINGS.
Every 1,000 miles lubricate with vehicle on level ground, with (CG)
general purpose grease, seasonal grade. If split type axle is equipped
with plug in hub driving flange, remove plug at steering knuckle
housing. Lubricate first through fitting in upper steering knuckle
bearing, and then through fitting inserted in hub driving flange until
lubricant is visible at plug hole. Replace plugs. To lubricate split
type axle without plug in hub driving flange, remove plug and lubricate
through fitting on upper steering knuckle until lubricant is visible
at plug opening. On banjo type axles, where two plugs are provided,
one on top of joint, the other one at front of steering knuckle support,
use only plug in steering knuckle support and lubricate through
fitting underneath joint until lubricant is visible at plug opening.
Every 6,000 miles, remove universal joints, (par. 167). Wash and
repack with (CG) general purpose grease, seasonal grade. Reinstall
(par. 167).

From Page 13 (part of LO 9-801 4 Oct 1948 Supersedes WDLO 9-901, 5 February 1945 ):

CG - Grease, General Purpose (above +32F CG 1) all other temp ranges CG 0

Now, what is the modern equivalent of CG 1 for use in the steering knuckle? Jeep guys go on and on about it, and one supposedly well informed 600+ year army educated 'expert' (in what we have yet to find out) go on and on and go no where.

Here is the answer.

First, modern grease is not the same as grease from 1940-50. So if you can (or say you have pallets of) either CG-1 or GAA then use it. But I doubt that most CCKW owners care or would go through the trouble to source such grease.

Why use a grease rather than an oil? This is a simple question. Oils need tight seals otherwise they leak. The steering knuckle has a very large movable surface area that needs sealing, also the brakes must be protected from contamination and so does the differential. Oil seals work great for that.. but sealing a small diameter shaft with a neoprene (or even leather) seal is no big deal. But a large curved surface exposed to the road/dirt/environment is difficult. A grease is uses becuase they stay in place (and stay where they are needed), and you no longer need a fluid tight seal. Also, unless the joint is submerged, you need a way to get the oil to the joint.. either with a splash system or a pump. A grease will adhere to whatever you put it on and say there till removed.

Now, the biggest stumbling point most people have is that a WWII MV was constantly serviced. If you note on the LO the majority of the lube items are either 1,000 mile (for simple lube) or 6,000 mile for clean and repack. That means that the grease is not designed (or able to) last for over 6000 miles of service.

Lets jump to modern greases. Most vehicles are not designed to be lubed. Long gone are zerk fittings and all bearings are sealed and lubed for life (life being approx 100,000-150,000 miles). Why is that? No one is going to run out every 1,000 miles and grease, or pack bearings every 6-10k. The advancement in greases designed them to stay put, not wash out and last for many, many thousands of miles.

So, what to put in a CCKW (or even a jeeps) steering knuckles? Simple.. follow the procedure and pack the CV joint with a good bearing grease (I use 707L red bearing grease) and fill the knuckle as directed with it. The modern wheel bearing grease will stay in place, lube the balls of the CV joint for many thousands of miles. When was the last time you relubed your modern vehicles CV joint? Answer - NEVER (unless you had a repair like replacing a boot.. then you might as well do it cause the joint is coming out anyway).

[pfarber]

Heres the specs for a modern CV lube...

Lubricant 4-Ball Wear Load/WearIndex
(ASTM D-4172B) (ASTM D-2783)

Red Line CV-2 0.46 71.1
Syn Grease - M 0.50 41.9
Syn Moly Grease - A 0.78 38.4
GM Wheel Bearing Grease 0.71 36.6

Lubricant 4-Ball Weld Drop Point
(ASTM D-2783)
Red Line CV-2 400 Kg 900°F+
Syn Grease - M 2 200 Kg 485°F
Syn Moly Grease - A 315 Kg 515°F
GM Wheel Bearing Grease 250 Kg 525°F

PROPERTY CV-2 GREASE
NLGI Grade #2
NLGI Service GC-LB
Thickener Non-Soap
Fluid Type Thermally-stable synthetic
Useful Temperature Range -100°F to 500°F
Color Red
Dropping Point, °F 900+
Load Wear Index 71.2
4-Ball Wear Scar Diameter (Red), 40 Kg 0.46 mm
Water Washout @ 105°F 1%
Evaporation Loss, 22 hrs @ 350°F 4%
Oil Separation, 30 hrs @ 350°F 5%
Oxidation Stability, 500 hrs @210°F, psi 12
Rust Test, ASTM D1743 Pass

Red Line CV-2 Grease is designed to withstand the extreme temperatures and pressures
which occur in high-performance wheel bearings and CV-joints. The excellent hightemperature
stability, extreme-pressure protection, and water resistance enables it to
out-perform even the best conventional or synthetic greases. Red Line CV-2 Grease can be
used in a wide range of applications at temperatures ranging between -100°F to 500°F and
provides good oxidation and corrosion resistance, low evaporation and oil separation, and has
a minimum effect on rubber seals. The exceptional extreme-pressure performance and the
fluidity of the synthetic oil allows increases in bearing life of 200% to 800%. Red Line CV-2
Grease contains a red moly compound which is a superior lubricant to black moly disulfide
lubricants.
Red Line CV-2 Grease may also be used in industrial applications such as high-temperature
alternator bearings, high-speed ball bearings, conveyor bearings, worm gear drives, servo
mechanisms, and applications where vibrations can cause fretting wear and corrosion to take
place.
Red Line CV-2 Grease will retain its consistency and extreme-pressure performance under
high-temperature and high-shear conditions for extended periods, which extends the
performance ranges of the lubricated components. Red Line CV-2 will slightly darken after
high-temperature use; this darkening will not detrimentally effect the performance of the
grease. Although Red Line CV-2 is compatible with small amounts of many petroleum-based
greases, it is always good lubrication practice to thoroughly clean out the old grease to
eliminate abrasive particles and to minimize the possibility of grease incompatibility.

[pfarber]

Whats interesting about the CV-2 grease from red line?

Well, its a NGLI grade 2 grease that is designed to perform to the NGLI GC-LB standard.

NGLI GC-LB means that the grease meets the NGLI specs for wheel bearing and chassis lubrication. A CV joint is nothing more than a modified wheel bearing.

NGLI grade 2 is basically saying what consistency it has. NGLI 2 is equated to 'peanut butter'. Go hold a jar of peanut butter upside down and see how much pours out. Any good quality peanut butter is not gonna go anywhere.

Also, the CV-2 grease is compared to GM Wheel Bearing Grease (what???!! a wheel bearing grease in a CV joint? What was GM thinking?)

So, if you want to mix oil and grease, or try and hunt down CG-1 or GAA grease, have at it. But the answer is simple.. get a good quality NGLI 2/GC-LB grease (again, the 707L is a pretty red color) and have at it.

[pfarber]

More tech specs for a CV specific grease... all you really need to know is that it meets NGLI GC-LB and NGLI Grade 2

http://www.clarkelubricants.com/docs/pr ... %20264.pdf

CAM2 CV Joint Grease has passed the ASTM D-3428 Ball Joint Test. This test
evaluates the wear protection, low temperature torque and protection from water
contamination. This guarantees excellent performance in CV Joints and Universal
Joints.
FEATURES HIGH QUALITY LITHIUM COMPLEX THICKENER
WIDE TEMPERATURE APPLICABILITY
EXCELLENT HIGH TEMPERATURE PERFORMANCE
RESISTS HIGH TEMPERATURE OXIDATION
EXCELLENT LOW TEMPERATURE TORQUE
EXTREME PRESSURE AND ANTIWEAR PROTECTION
EXCELLENT RUST PROTECTION
RESISTS WATER CONTAMINATION
RESISTS WATER WASHOUT
SUITABLE FOR INDUSTRIAL GEARS AND BEARINGS
SPECIFICATIONS
NLGI GC-LB
Ball Joint Test ASTM D-3428
NEMA Class A and Class B

Page 2
CAM2 International, LLC. * 31207 Keats Way, * Suite 203 * Evergreen, CO 80439
2
NLGI Grade 2
Penetration, ASTM D-217
Worked 60 Strokes 285
Worked 100,000 Strokes 275
Dropping Point, ASTM D-2265, C 260
Oil Separation, ASTM D-1742, % 3
Lubrication Life, ASTM D-3336 Mod., Hrs.125
Timken OK Load, ASTM D-2509, kg.18 (40 Lbs.)
Four Ball EP Test, ASTM D-2596, kg.
Load Wear Index 40
Weld Point 250
Four Ball Wear Test, ASTM D-2266, 40 kg., 1200 rpm, 0.4 0
75 C., 1 Hr., Scar Diameter, mm
Wheelbearing Test, ASTM D-1263, Leakage, g.
1.5
Water Wash Out, ASTM D-1264, %
4
Corrosion Protection, ASTM D-1743, Rating
Pass
Base Oil Viscosity, ASTM D-445
cSt. @ 40 C.
146 (ISO 150)
cSt @ 100 C.
14 (SAE 40)
APPLICATIONS:
CV Joints require a grease with excellent high temperature performance and excellent
low temperature torque. The grease must protect the rubber boots that are vital to long
CV joint life. It must protect against heavy loads, and It must resist water contamination.
The NLGI GC-LB specification defines CV Joint performance. Only the very best all
season EP greases can claim NLGI GC-LB acceptability. CAM2 CV Joint Grease has
passed all the requirement of NLGI GC-LB and the ASTM Ball Joint Test. It has wide
acceptability in automotive lubrication. This is an outstanding grease for CV Joints and
Universal Joints. It is also an excellent grease for electric motors and other industrial
bearings. It can be used in industrial gears requiring an EP #2 grease. The low
temperature properties make it suitable for central lubrication systems on heavy
equipment. This a high quality modern grease for your automotive applications

[pfarber]

I think I am going to modify my original position just a bit. After looking through a few maint books on modern cars (a 1995 F-150 and a 2003 Dodge Durango and a 2009 Dodge Caliber) and seeing what they call for WRT CV lube (they really don't say much at all.. other than used approved CV grease) at my next GPW/CCKW knuckle service I am NOT going to fill the knuckle up with grease... just coat it for rust prevention.

I will fill in the CV joint/balls with lube... but I really don't see the need for a knuckle full of modern NGLI grease that simply does not flow (like a CG 1 or NGLI 1 grease would). The stuff I have on the jeep now is clinging to the metal surfaces even after a 10 mile drive (it was either gonna get flug off or stay put.. image that, it stayed put).

Plus with the semi annual 'going over' I don't ever see the CV joint running dry. If I were using a less viscous grease, I would worry about it... but the 707L is simply not moving about like many people think (expect?) it to. Plus it will save me a few gallons of lube... ever notice how big a CCKW knuckle is? Even only filled to the plug its a lot of grease.

[pfarber]

Got an e-mail that I am giving out bad advice and that I might even be sued by someone for not following the manufactures maintenance procedure (yeah, people are that dumb)

Here's my response:

NGLI grade 2 GC-LB grease if applied correctly (aka jam it into the slots where the big metal ball bearings are) is NOT going to run out, melt, cook, turn to ash, or otherwise do ANYTHING other than adhere to the meal surface and lube the balls/slots.

Go out to your CCKW or jeep or car and find the nearest u-joint (this may be hard because modern cars have sealed U-joints that *never* need lube, unlike MVs that can/may have a zerk for new grease. On my jeep and CCKW there is still lots of 707L clinging to the splines/yoke/journals. Why didn't the grease fling itself off by centripetal force leaving the splines/yoke/journals dry? Because its designed to stick to the metal and NOT get flung off. Some little bits do if you apply much grease, but the drive shaft is rotating many more RPMs than an axle shaft yet on my CCKW/Jeep the lube interval is the same 1000 mile as a the steering knuckle. If using the older CG 1 or GAA grease it is thinner and may seep out (remember the knuckle is sealed with felt, not rubber or neoprene so you will lose some lube, by design... thats the ONLY reason you check the level at 1000 mile intervals. The 6000 mile clean/repack is the money shot.. after 6000 miles the amount of CG 1 or GAA will have been reduced in both lube properties and physical amounts requiring a cleaning and replacement of the lube. Compare this with modern CV joints that require NO additional lube.. they are lubed for life at the factory... and the lube is not slathered all over the place... its packed where its needed, in the slots of the joint.

Its all pretty simple.

[pfarber]

Hey G503-ers... I know you are reading this.

Go to ANY CV joint repair shop and ask them what to put in a CV joint. You CAN put a liquid in the joint, but then worry about the seals. Or, yo can use a modern CV joint grease and be done with it. It is 'original'? As original as all the epoxy paints and neoprene seals you are using instead of leather. You'll not use NOS leather/felt seals/wipers but the lube in the knuckle *MUST* be original CG-1. Yeah, that makes sense.

OR you can read this:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/cvjoint1.htm

Hey! That looks JUST LIKE a jeep CV joint. But instead of an expensive ball casting, it has a rubber boot. Now, if the -60000 year training (and must have failed the class but passed anyway because the instructions were tired of all his 'knowledge') Army jeep mechanics can not figure out why GREASE is used after reading that then they are simply as uninformed as they appear to be.

This is NOT the 40's. This is 2010 and we have grease that will outperform anything the Army would shoot into the ball.

I'll happily drive my jeep to your front door with nothing but the CV joint packed in grease and the knuckle coated to prevent rust. Just give me an address (Come on WWII TRUCK put up or please god shut up) and you can buy me lunch when I get there.

[pfarber]

I bet the next thing that people are going to say is that you *need* seepage past the ball wipers to keep out contamination.

Ok jeep mechanics (and CCKW guys also) this is based on the assumption that you have a 'wet' knuckle (full of this mythical semi-fluid grease... NGLI 00, 0 or even 1) where the lube is in contact with the seals. Again, there is a reason why most modern 4x4s are NOT using closed knuckle joints. All they need is a rubber boot to seal out the dirt.

The seals (felt or rubber) on the knuckle are more than adequate to keep out the contamination if you run a grease. Why? A grease will not mix like a fluid. How long do you think it will take dirt to migrate from the ball, through the grease to the joint when the grease is never agitated? If anything a layer of grease on the ball will do more to seal the dirt than a seal. When it comes time to clean the knuckle, you take out the old grease and all the dirt it contains. But since the grease is not agitated by the CV joint itself, the dirt NEVER has a direct path to the joint. Unlike these 'soups' which are agitated and will happily spread dirt.

I know this is a somewhat major shift in jeep maintenance... but modern lubes can significantly improve a jeeps life... but you have to use them in a slightly different way.