More MVPA 'disussion points'

[pfarber]

OK, the MVPA (lets note that the P = PRESERVATION) has been around for a long time.. and most of the long time jeep collectors/restorers have the rarer/better TMs/info.

Would you not think that the MVPA would canvass its members for these rare old books for them to be digitized or copied for members to use?

I mean lets be honest.. the MVPA = jeep guys. Yeah, there are a few other prevalent vehicles, but jeeps are the meat and taters of the mvPa.

With (supposedly) 8k member, some since the inception and even part of the other MV collecting club that predates the mvPa.. yet what can the MVPA (as a group, not individuals) point to and say they have done? There is a massive pool of knowledge, yet hardly anything available for its members from the mvPa's efforts to PRESERVE anything. They should have a pretty sold library of digital TMs that would make and jeep restorer smile. They have a few books.

Portrayal press has a solid library of TMs... yet I see no relationship the the MVPA to get that info into the members hands (and to be honest Portrayal press has no copyright to anything they sell, they charge for the xerox of the document.) I have absolutely NOTHING but praise for Portrayal Press... but when I look at the MVPA's library, I see NOTHING.

That brings me to 'The Archives'. The reason I was banned from www.g503.com. The MVPA has a pool of great original documents, yet YEARS after receipt there has been NOTHING made available. If you are not in the 'inner circle' I guess you should just shut up and pay your dues so the people WHO GET hands on the archives can use it for THEIR benefit.. not the mvPa's who resources they are using. With nearly $800,000 in the mvPa's bank account, 'The Archives' was begging for PCs and scanners. Evidently they got nothing for their pleas. The person 'in charge' (I do not know who they are, but they have not produced ANY visible results) either has no plan, or a poor one.

Let me offer the mvPa some advice. Fire whomever is in charge of the archives. Whatever they are doing is not working. The membership has seen nothing for the effort. Get in an IT guy that KNOWS haw to handle document storage and warehousing. Get every print digitized. Once in digital format let the 'geezers' have the paper copy because at that point they will not be of any further use. Put the archive online and let the membership look at them and classify them on line. I'm positive many, many people would love to sit down and look at drawings all night, and help classify them. Once a drawing has been 'classified' by the online system 2-3 times with no conflicting classification, then that's where they go. Yeah, its a pretty advanced concept.. letting people help and putting technology to its best use.. I mean its ONLY 2008 and computers are ONLY 30+ years old... so we would be breaking new ground

Once all the drawings are in place OPEN THEM TO THE MEMBERSHIP. This is where the PRESERVE part comes in. Let THEM use the prints without having to pay the MVPA (who is supposed to help preserve Military Vehicles). You might earn some respect and get a lot of pissed off former members back that you lost from the BoD stupidity (which is still lingering 2 years since it reared its ugly head). Oh yeah, the 'Head Archivist' would NOT report to the BoD.. that way the old guard can only sit and watch as the membership (you know.. the PEOPLE) actually derive some USE from the MVPA... and not simply read about the bickering or put up with Supply Line and that Horrible Army Motors.

Why doesn't the MVPA have a COMPLETE SET of 40's era Army Motors available for its members? But that's another post.

[pfarber]

HOLLY SMOKES! THE MVPA WILL NOW SELL YOU A DRAWING THAT YOUR DUES MADE POSSIBLE!! Wow! I wonder what else they will nickle and dime you for?

This is a brand new development.. I wonder if I had anything to do with it.

The secure shopping cart is still not right... who is ltm hosting and why are they taking my information? I know why, but come, an SSL cert is all of $20-30 dollars. MVPA get your own damn cert.

I am impressed. I find it hard to believe that there is less than a dozen prints of interest.

Oh well... its a step forward, a tiny, minuscule, almost imperceptible step forward.... but by god they did *something*.

Wait.. do members have to pay?

[WWII TRUCK]

The MVPA only deserves kind words, praise and patience. IThey have a great heritage. MV collecting is worldwide, the MVPA deserves much credit for the hobby being great as it is.

[pfarber]

Kind words? I got banned from one of the sites frequented by MOST of the BoD.. not because of a jeep discussion.. but because I pointed them out for SOME of the failures they have made. I will, if and when they deserve it, congratulate them on accomplishments.

The SSL topic was simply DELETED. Do honest people do that? Do people who are in it for the joy of doing it pull the stunts like they have? Getting paid for volunteer work and trying to rig life-long jobs?

The Archives is a joke and after 2+ years all the membership has to show for it are 6 drawing YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR?

Just WHAT EXACTLY is the mvPa PRESERVING besides their own hides?

Have then completed a financial audit as required?

Do they bid out club jobs/projects or give them to long time members because they know the Bod? (The MVPA web site is a PRIME example). The Archive project is a close second.



If I wanted to I could go on... but we all know the score... membership 0, old guard with fears of being outdated 1.

[WWII TRUCK]

Nothing in this world is perfect. In order to give good advice one has to establish credibility. Credibility comes with a proven track record. Track records are good or bad. Good track records gain the attention of the masses. Bad track records do not gain much of a following. Credibility comes with experience.
Experience in the MV hobby is gained from research, getting ones' hands dirty, making friends in the hobby, and having a positive approach.
The end result of all of this is a restored MV or two and lots of new friends. Most MV owners are only too happy to swap information and help others make their MV restoration a reality.
Bitching about the MVPA without a well established and proven track record is not going to get very far. A hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and there sure are a lot of happy MVPA members driving their MVs around. I got a feeling that these happy owners are what makes the MVPA the success that it is.
Don't you?

[pfarber]

Credibility is NOT experience.

Credibility is giving up what you have to when you have becuase its RIGHT.

Experience is knowing what is right.

Credibility is NOT banning or attacking people that point out your errors and show you HOW TO FIX THEM.

Experience is taking that advice if it is good.

Credibility is FOLLOWING THE RULES even if they lead to you losing the power you crave.

Experience is knows that power is derived from the people who give it to you.

The MVPA may have had better days. But in the forum of public opinion one bad day (or in the MVPA's recent history, 2 BAD YEARS) erases all the good... if there was any to begin with.

How much money has the MVPA collected.. and they do not even have a complete library of ANYTHING. No Army Motors, no jeep TMs, NOTHING. With all the funds that the membership has given them what can you point to and say that they did?

Local chapters derive little, if any use of the National Organization other than a convention. A car show. They are held just about every summer weekend in my neck of the woods.

The people you meet in the hobby could care less about the MVPA. Its a magazine to them. This is proven over and over again as voting rarely ever sees more that a few % participation. 5% return is a good year... even when the BoD was trying to ensure lifelong positions for themselves the vote return didn't reach more than 10% of the membership.

The MVPA, in recent years, to the people who actually care to follow it, has done nothing but try and obtain money and power for themselves from the organization. The archive project is another example of the power hoarding. In OVER TWO YEARS all they have to show the membership is 6 drawings? I'm POSITIVE the really good/rare drawings are safe in the hands of the inner sanctum. Where they will stay.

How dare a *lowly member* question THEIR RIGHT to that information?????

Seeing that I got banned from the most active web site of the most active group of MVPA members CLEARLY shows that they were called on their misdeeds and do not want to be held accountable.

As for restored vehicles... what has the MVPA done in that arena? Vendors have the parts, not the MVPA. Vendors have the knowledge, not the MVPA. The MVPA has one thing.. judging standards. How many MV owners care if their jeep meets Factory class standards? How many MVs has the MVPA put on the road? How many MVs does the MVPA have in a trust for the membership to refer to? The MVPA doesn't even have a library of TMs to refer to.

I was an MVPA member for 3 years. As soon as you get the first supply line, the vendors RARELY change. Please show me where an MVPA publication did more than make revenue for the MVPA. Some articles are very, very good. I applaud the people who take the time to distribute that information.

MD Juan has done more for the Jeep community than the MVPA. Jeepdraw has done more for the jeep community than the MVPA.

I challenge you to come up with a list of 10 things that the MVPA has done (ON THEIR OWN MERIT) to enhance the MV hobby.