ENGINE PAINT... SOLVED!!!

[pfarber]

Just reposting this photo. Note the change in color from the engine to the transmission.

engineout1.jpg (31.87 KiB) Viewed 17518 times

[Quasimodo]

Here's another view of the engine paint and early aircleaner with decal at right rear maybe:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b04252/

[Quasimodo]

And another:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b04248/

[Quasimodo]

And another engine view from Fort Knox - very early truck possibly a 1940 model:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/oem200 ... /resource/

[pfarber]

And another:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b04248/

This might be Studebaker or some other 1.5/2.5 ton truck. The air cleaner and location of the voltage regulator don't look appropiate for a G506/G507.

But it is very interesting that the air cleaner decal is what we think it should be, square AC, not rounded or curved.

The blue denim work uniform puts this as 40-41 but the photo info says Created/published in June 1942. It could be that Negro units were still issued work denims as they would have not gotten newer clothing when it first came out that's why they are still in denims so late.

Great photos.

[Quasimodo]

Think it's the ACKW ? model GMC in this series -

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/related/?va ... e&op=EQUAL

Always a good idea to look at the neighboring pics in this collection as many are not captioned and don't show up in the index so well - one of these mechanics was photographed with colour film from two different angles but unfortunately not one which shows the engine colour.

[pfarber]

I've used photos from this series already.

[odgmc]

I too thought that the correct color is the medium green (close to British Racing Green or a wet olive) until I started disassembling the engines in my two current trucks.

The first truck, produced 11/43; engine serial #270442893, went to Europe and was turned over to the French. Engine was rebuilt by them in 1961. This engine is the medium green as indicated. It has a French rebuild tag and some of the green is on top of the rebuild tag (see pic)

French rebuilt engine

showing that this color was definitely applied by the French. Did they use the same standard GMC paint? Bell housing is also this color. The second truck, produced 1/44; engine serial #27072594I, did not go to Europe as far as I can tell. The engine in this truck is a blue/green turquoise. This color is listed as a standard GM engine paint color starting in the late 30's and through part of the 40's. This listing is unfortunately for civilian vehicles. The color is listed as GM Alpine Green (I have also seen it listed as Detroit Diesel Alpine Green). Dupli-Color makes this paint and it is their part number DR1618. Note: I have not purchased any of this green to color match against the original paint. This color was also on the bell housing. Neither engine have any color under the colors shown. If these are not original colors they the complete engine from bell housing to oil pan to valvel cover was stripped of all paint.

Top-French rebuilt; bottom-stateside engine

Left-Stateside bell housing; Right-French

Any thoughts?

[pfarber]

I'll just add this to finish up:

No, none of the photos looks like the proper green paint. The original paint color and places to buy it are in the previous posts.

[crowbar]

To All,

Now that its been a year or two since the last post, just wondering if anyone has any feedback on this paint:

http://www.classicparts.com/1947-48-Eng ... fo/88-055/

I know they advertise it as a "VERY HIGH TEMPERATURE" paint, but some of the spec sheets that I found on Nason Machinery and Equipment paint seemed to indicate that the max temp was only 200 deg (not 100% sure this was the correct data sheet for this paint, however).

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff on a running vehicle? Does it seem to be staying put, or burning off?

Getting ready to start painting some engine parts. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks !!

Best regards...

[pfarber]

That's the exact same paint I bought.. read about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=515&p=1069&hilit=nason#p1069

Its good stuff. Many reliable sources have reiterated that this IS the factory 'olive' paint used by GM.

Its expensive, and kinda difficult to shoot (a little thin, use light coats).

[crowbar]

OK.

So I ordered a quart of this paint from these guys: http://www.classicparts.com/1947-48-Eng ... fo/88-055/.

When it arrived, I was surprised to see an unmarked, silver, one quart paint can. No label, no markings, nothing. Just a plain ole can.

Call me old fashion, but I kinda like to know what type of paint I am using in my gun. Little things like thinning and cleanup instructions, safety precautions, recoat times, compatible primers, are sorta nice to know ahead of time.

So I tried emailing them (twice) and never got a response. I finally called them and talked to their "customer service". After getting switched around for awhile, the only thing that they could tell me was that they bought it from Jim Carter Truck Parts, so if I had any questions I should contact them!

Sooo, I called Jim Carter, and did not fare much better. When I asked what type of paint it was they, put me on hold, then came back and said: "enamel". When I asked what type of enamel, they answered "acrylic" (again after a short hold period). When I asked what brand and paint code, they said: (yes, after another hold period) it was PPG, and that was all the information that they had. When I asked about thinning, they told me that I did not have to thin it, as it was already thin enough. For cleanup I should just use a good "enamel reducer" (PPG probably makes like 50 different reducers).

Did anyone else have this kind of experience? When you received your paint, did it at least have a label on it? The picture on the C.P. website has a can of Nason Machinery paint - not PPG.

Anyway, I brushed on a quick test patch, and the color seemed to be pretty close. I am basing this off of the oil pan on my project engine. According to the tag, it's last government stop was at the Rossford Ordnance Depot. I am assuming that it was here that it received a heavy (very heavy) coat of dark OD green. After chiseling that off, I found a few remaining patches of what I think is the original GMC paint. At least it matches the my new paint.

The attached pic (below) shows the colors:

1 = Dark green - presumably R.O.D.
2 = GCI "319" reference - from one of the jeep places
3 = Original GMC ?
4 = Classic Parts / Jim Carter "Mystery Paint"

[attachment=1]Oil Pan 1.JPG[/attachment]

So. Throwing caution to the wind, I donned my respirator, poured the contents from the unmarked silver can into my gun and went to work. I'm not a painting expert, but I have shot a car or two in my time. The stuff smelled and behaved an awful lot like acrylic enamel - i.e. you have to put it on just thick enough to get it to dry glossy, but not a hair thicker or it will run faster than the babysitter's boyfriend when the car pulls up.

(They must also have thinned it with a low temp reducer, because it dried super fast, even though the outside temp was around 58 deg.)

The results were not too bad. However, I would have liked to add just a wee bit more reducer - if I knew what kind to add:

[attachment=0]Oil Pan and Bell Housing.jpg.jpg[/attachment]

So, to summarize, I give this project the following grades:

Customer support: F-
Coverage: C*
Color Match: A
Ease of Use: C

* I gave coverage a C, because when I buy a quart of paint (especially for $50), I expect to get one quart of actual paint - not paint that has already been "thinned" for me. (Kinda like when I buy Scotch - it doesn't already come with the "water" in it). Since the thinning ratio is usually around 5:1, I figure they owe me another 5-6 oz. of paint.

Anyway, I hope that this stuff is actually "engine" paint, and holds up OK. If its just plain ole acrylic enamel, I could have just taken my oil pan down to my local paint dealer and had them match it up for me, and saved a lot of aggravation.

If it starts to flake or burn off too easily, I am going to be really pissed.

Best Regards...

[crowbar]

Update to the above post:

I contacted Jim Carter Parts via email today regarding the details of the aforementioned "Engine Paint". They got back to me right away, and informed me that it was, in fact, PPG acrylic enamel, and that its upper temperature limit was 200 deg. (I assume this to be 200 deg. "F" ).

This rating is significantly lower than any other "Engine Paint" that I am familiar with. Paint suppliers such as VHT, Dupli Color, or even Rustoleum typical show a rating of around 500 deg. F.

I passed the Jim Carter Parts info onto Classic Parts, requesting a refund since:

1) The paint that they sold me was PPG, not Nason, as stated on their website.

2) A 200 deg. max. temp rating hardly qualifies as "VERY HIGH TEMPERATURE ", as also stated on their website.

They got back to me within an hour, apologizing for my inconvenience, and offering a full refund. I also noticed that the link to this product on their website is no longer active.

So, I guess the earlier customer service rating for both companies goes up several notches. I'm glad that Jim Carter was at least able to provide product details (although, I think that this info should be included in the product description). I am also glad that Classic Parts has chosen to stand behind its products. However, I now have a number of engine components covered in paint with a marginal temperature rating. Parts like the bell housing, or starter linkage will be OK, but parts like the valve cover or oil pan can easily exceed 200 deg. F under certain conditions. So, I have to decide on whether to strip them and repaint, or just try my luck.

Fortunately, I had not painted the block or cylinder head yet, however this poses a new problem: What to paint them with? Anybody know a paint supplier that has real engine paint in this color, or can mix it to match ?

The search resumes....

Best Regards.

[pfarber]

Seems like all the links no longer show the image of the NASON paint. I'll snap some of the can I have for reference.

Any vendor that sells me paint in a plain, unmarked can is gonna have a bad time UNLESS they mix it for me at a local shop. At $50/qt ($200 a gallon!) I better get a freaking label with thinning/spray instructions, cleanup, contents etc.... yes I read them, and some paints require certain thinners or clean up... how will you know with an unmarked can of mystery goo?

The fact that they 'fixed it' means that either they KNEW they were wrong, or have had so many problems that its better to cut the loss ASAP.

As for the paint colors, matching old paint is really a non-starter... paint ages and changes tint no matter where it is.. it may be close, but 70 year old paint is not the same color as when its first shot. We have enough factory references to the original color/mix that getting the right paint is not a problem (unless its an unmarked can of who knows what).

Thanks for the report, good on Jim Carter for making it right... but honestly, they should have known better. Good customer service means not having a problem in the first place.

[pfarber]

Here is the official (?) NASON/DuPont can:

DSCN1051.jpg (143.4 KiB) Viewed 17485 times

DSCN1046.jpg (238 KiB) Viewed 17485 times

DSCN1049.jpg (166.51 KiB) Viewed 17485 times

DSCN1050.jpg (186.21 KiB) Viewed 17485 times

Note the all important 'how to use' part.