Harrison Heater

[retro-roco]

One could more correctly say that most of the Harrison Heaters with the bosses are likely leftover from WILLYS jeeps than CCKWs. I cannot put the heater into a GM or GMC vehicle at all.

No. Willys heaters may look similar from the front, but as you've pointed out a number of time, the heater core tubes are different, as are the mounting flanges.

As I said, I'm OK with my "postwar" heater, as it has the correct straight tubes, and the correct rear mounting flanges (and an unneeded postwar boss).

[pfarber]

Agreed that the heater used in the CJ was different.

The Harrison Heater with the 'short' bracket if for Chevy trucks. But I have only been able to confirm (tenuously) the heater in 1950's+ trucks. The Harrison Chevrolet Super DELUXE heater has yet to be placed in a 1940's era vehicle. And the one photo we DO have shows no boss. Since there was little to no civilian car sales during the war, I don't believe that Harrison would modify the design and retool the dies for a baffle system.

The brackets for the CJ mount are specific to it, and were actually a FACTORY option for about 6 months. So it make sense that WILLYS would order up a new design specifically for their late 40's early 50's jeeps. Initially they used the same square heater as the WWII jeep, but they proved to be difficult for the driver to operate the pedals. So that's why the heater was modified for the passenger side. I have no idea why the bracket was longer, there is nothing under a jeep dash that sticks out very much, and the tubes were bent to clear the passenger side fender.

[pfarber]

Called Delphi in Lockport, NY... could not break out of the auto-attendent. Didn't want to leave voice mail as that would most likely go nowhere.

Found a Contact page and sent an email... will see how far that get me... hahahaha

Emailed the City of Lockport... maybe someone there has a tip on a local person that knows the history.

http://elockport.com/index.php

Looks like a nice place... my take a trip up there with the gf to see the locks.... yeah, that's it.. we'll go to see the locks bwaa haa haa

[pfarber]

Progress...well, kinda of.

The Harrison model number for the heater used in the CJs, was, in fact MODEL 441.

"Part no. 669313 - Heater, assembly (Harrison)
('49 Parts List only)

This is the third generation heater, Harrison model 441, used after s/n 181174. Shown only in the '49 Parts List.

It's mounted on the passenger side.

It was available as a factory installed option up to s/n 204386, or at any time as a dealer/owner add-on in kit #669747 (subsequently superseded by kit #94046)."

They call it the 'third generation' because the first two heaters were the same as the wartime square heaters mounted above the steering column.

This is about the only documented proof of a heater based on the ones in the CCKW that has been put into a parts manual.

They simply just must not have been popular items.

[pfarber]

Looking at a copy of the 1947 Chevrolet Accessories list (dealers list) it shows some interesting part numbers:

48accessorieslist.JPG (19.02 KiB) Viewed 11189 times

Note part numbers

• 986061 - Heater Dash-Type
• 986062 - Heater & Defroster - Large - Dash
• 986101 - Heater - Dash Type

You have to make the assumption that:
The combo heater/defroster is the Super Deluxe with the defroster vents lever and passenger/driver baffles pn 986062

48superdeluxe.JPG (24.87 KiB) Viewed 11189 times

Still not at the CCKW heater... but at least there are some part numbers to go by.

[pfarber]

I can say with 85-90% confidence that after 1947 GM or GMC DID NOT use the 'triangular' Harrison Heater in new trucks. 1948 seems to be the year the Advance Design trucks shifted to the 'fresh air' heaters.. and even included the louvers on the cowl to support them.

It also looks like the 'SUPER DELUXE' model ended in 1948. I'm sure later trucks may have had them installed, but only as stocks were depleted. The newer truck designs all seemed to go with the 'fresh air' type and one of the advertising slogans was 'trucks that breathe' (because they used outside air for heating, if desired.

So its looking more and more that other than WILLYS, and only up till 1949 were these heaters made. That gives a KNOWN date range or 44-49.

[pfarber]

I had to document this... the 'Chevy Super Deluxe' magically becomes the 'GMC Super Deluxe' with the proper trim piece!

Note the mount bolts, core pipes and flange are all 'proper' as per the Military heater install manual.

All this does is truly answer the question that heaters were really the wild west of accessories in the 40's.

[retro-roco]

So any idea what the tag on the back says??

[retro-roco]

Just did a search on e-bay for "(1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946 ) (chevy, chevrolet, gmc ) truck heater" and found some interesting pics. Perhaps one of the most interesting is one that appears to debunk the idea that a tag of H-1-47 indicates a heater designed or mfgd in '47.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-1940-1941-1946-Chevy-truck-original-optional-Deluxe-heater-Pickup-rat-rod-/310593645915?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4850d2ed5b&vxp=mtr


This heater, which appears to be early 1940's vintage, but here's the tag:


It clearly says H-172. I find it really hard to believe that this heater would have been designed or mfgd in '72??

[pfarber]

Well that kinda depends... most of the 30's Harrison heaters had wacky model numbers.. most were 3 digit and would not match up to anything in the 30's. But starting in the 40's and 50's they model numbers somewhat do match. But the GM part numbers from the Master Parts books (I posted them above) do not match at all, and from the PARTS BOOK only CV or GM numbers are listed.

But as can be shown, the heaters available from dealers (with the Chevy/GMC logo on the heater trim) that would be ordered with GM part numbers have 'generic' Harrison models that use the Harrison part number.

I can offer a few hypothesis as to why the 'Chevy Super Heater' (and now with the newly discovered 'GMC Super Heater) are descendents of the WWII production Harrison Heaters:

The Military versions did not have any additional bosses or holes to accept the trim piece or additional baffles. The holes for the trim, baffle handles and defroster motor would certainly be a secondary stamping operation.

Its not until the 50's (or at the EARLIEST 45-49) is there any mention of heaters with defrosters built in. Most of the heaters from the 30's and early 40s were simple cabin heaters, and baffles were simple doors, if any.

The only vehicle we can place a place a 'plain' Harrison Heater in is the Willys CJ's, and even they switched to a 'fresh air' system in the late 40's. The first CJ's used the standard WWII square jeep heater for the first year.

I think that the Military Harrison heater WAS designed in the early 40's to replace the 'art deco' heaters of the 30's. The design was as in the Military heater manual... no boss on the lower right side (as the idea for a defroster was not even on the radar at this point). But the War forced them to place it on the back burner as a civilain product. The Military Harrison heater WAS used 42-44 in larger vehicles that had the space to accommodate the larger size. Post war, GM/GMC did have plans to offer the Military Heater for sale, but with much needed upgrades that they learned from the war: Baffles to control heat and a defroster for windshield. So a small number of Chevy/GMC Super Deluxe Heaters (with baffles and defrosters) were made, but the press molds were modified for the extra options.

Willys, still a small car company by any measure, needed a heater for the CJ. It initially used WWII square heaters under the drivers dash, but as widely noted, it was ineffective. So they when with an available model that was readily available, a stripped down version of the GM/GMC Super Deluxe heater (without the baffles and defroster). GM/GMC had already designed another heater, and abandoned the older style based on the Military heater.

[pfarber]

Heater	Note
30sheaters.JPG (17.16 KiB) Viewed 11185 times	Typical 30's heater. No fresh air, small, doors for baffles, no direct defrost
harrison1.JPG (23.87 KiB) Viewed 11185 times	Harrison Heater for the 40's. Bigger, more heat, but still simple single purpose
	This is what Harrison came up for post war. Baffled and built in defrost. Heat can be 'turned off' from inside the car without having to open the hood and close the valve
	The heater that killed the Military style heater. Defroster, baffeled, smaller. This model would evolve into the later 'fresh air' type heaters
harrison3.JPG (17.63 KiB) Viewed 11185 times	Willys needed a better heater, but without the bells and whistles... so they used up the last of the post war heaters that were modified from the simpler Military style (with the boss stamped) style before switching to a fresh air heater of their own in the late 40's 50's
late40sheaters.JPG (19.29 KiB) Viewed 11185 times	This is the heater of the late 40's. Everything the pimped out Military Style was, but smaller and able to be put in vastly more cars.

When GM decided in the mid 50's that from the late 50's on all heaters/defrosters would be designed into the car the 'heater accessory' market died. Willys is most likely the only reason we have the 'Military style heater, with boss' because they were used on jeeps and did not have all the additional holes punched in them for the baffles/defroster.

Or I could be completely wrong. Flip a coin

[retro-roco]

Willys is most likely the only reason we have the 'Military style heater, with boss' because they were used on jeeps and did not have all the additional holes punched in them for the baffles/defroster.

I think most of what you've conjectured is plausible, but I'm confused by this last statement. What is the connection you're suggesting between the Willys heaters (deeper flange and bent heater core pipes) and the GMC (cckw or otherwise??) military heater (shallower flange and straight pipes)?

[pfarber]

Since the Military install TM (which dates back to 1944) clearly shows NO boss, we must assume that is the original configuration of the heater.

Since the discovery of the 'Chevy/GMC Super Deluxe Heater' (with the baffles and defroster) as the only post-war and pre-CJ models known of, we can assume that the original 'base' heater (no boss) was modified to have a defroster and baffles, so the boss was added, and the additional holes were punched for the baffles and defroster. This time line seems to follow what was happening with heaters in general. From simple fans and cores, to heaters with secondary defroster units, to heaters with integral defroster units, to heater with baffles, defrosters, and both recirculate and fresh air modes.

So with that timeline we can look at the 44 Military heater TM and see no boss for baffles, and no defroster. To the 45 model with both baffles and defroster.

The CJ is different in that the Military style heater with a defroster would never fit under the dash and still allow a passenger to sit there. The CJs mounting brackets are different to clear the center engine 'bump' that protrudes into the passenger compartment. The CCKW has a fairly small 'bump', but the CJ has a deeper bump, hence the need for an additional 1-2 inches of extra mounting depth. The core tubes are bent to clear the passenger side fender in the engine bay.

We have photographic proof that the boss in the 44 TM was not there. We have photographic proof that the CJ-3 used an identical heater body (with boss, but no baffle/defroster) and differing mount flanges. We can also see the Military style with the exact same mounting flanges, but pimped out with baffles and defroster. I think the progression of the heater is fairly clear. Basic unit of the era -> Deluxe civvy version -> Simple version that would fit a CJ. The downside is that the 1945 Chevy heater with the integral defroster was smaller, and would fit more vehicles... hence the very, very short lifetime of the pimped out military style heater. It was obsolete a year after being on the market.

I guess you could hunt for the reason why Willys used the Military style heater, and went to the expense of modifying the core tubes and mounts.... but I would guess that Harrison would have no problem making those minor changes. The big money saving would be in not having to retool the body dies. Simply stamp them, but omit the secondary step that punched the baffle/defroster holes. I think that Willys really had no real option but to offer whatever heater was available, and more importantly, fit in the tiny cab of the CJ.

Of course Willys quickly followed the industry... small footprint heaters that were designed into the vehicle, not added as an afterthought. If you look at the heater that was installed on the CJ-5 it was a complete package: fresh air/recirculate, integral defroster, baffled and temp controlled. MILES ahead of what the CJ-3 offered. The CJ-5 was in production in 1954... and the heater included in that model was above and beyond the CJ-3 heater.

[retro-roco]

Let me try to express my question differently. Given your proposed timeline of heaters, both GMC and Willys, where does my heater (and the identical one you pictured above) fit. It is a military heater, with GMC mounting flanges, NO defroster, but it has the front boss. Additional questions to consider:

if Willys used a heater with bosses but no defroster, can it be presumed that they were not the driving force behind the decision to add the tooling for the bosses?
If not them, then can it be presumed that it was likely GM that added them when they needed baffles and a defroster for a civilian product?
Are we presuming that these likely civilian tooling changes (adding the bosses) were done post war, and that any military heater with the same bosses is also post-war?

If so, then my heater is one of these post-war heaters (but then Ive already indicated my acceptance of it as such).

[pfarber]

The mounting brackets do cloud the waters. My first guess would be that as designed, the Military heater always had the short flange and straight core tubes. The Willys heater is a modification to suit their specific application. Few cars of the late 40's early 50's would have such a small passenger compartment as a jeep CJ. The only reason Willys would have selected the Military style heater was because it was 'thin' enough to fit under the dash. The stock Military heater was only 6 inches wide. The CJ version would stick out a total of about 8-9 inches from the firewall.... much thinner than square heaters of the time.

I also don't think Willys had any input into the heater they finally used, it was simply the only design that was pretty much off the shelf. Harrison would have had the molds (since the lifespan of the Super Deluxe heater seems to only be one year) and would have jumped at the chance to run them as is... that means the boss would still be there. And the flange would be a new design... but a simple one.

In total, there were about 400,000 jeep CJ2A-CJ3A/B over 23 years (1945-1968 ave 17,000/yr) that's pretty low, and of that how many would need a heater? Not a lot of money for Willys to justify a completely new heater. Considering that the Cj-2A would account for almost half of that production, and only lasted 4 years till the CJ-3 took over.

This is the CJ3 heater.. compact, does not drop much below the dash, has built in defrost/fresh air. Miles above the Military style. This is why I say that the Military style heater is a stop gap... it was picked as a cheap and fast drop in till the custom Willys design was made.